Ep 72: The Balancing Act: Parenting and Entrepreneurship with Dayna Abraham

Jul 4

The Balancing Act: Parenting and Entrepreneurship with Dayna Abraham

I had the pleasure of interviewing my friend Dayna Abraham, who is a best-selling author of the Superkids Activity Guide and Calm the Chaos: A Failproof Method for Parenting Even the Most Challenging Kids.. Dayna is not only an accomplished author but also an incredible businesswoman. She manages three memberships while being a mom of three. Her mission is to create a more accepting world one kid at a time.

In this episode, we discussed how her three memberships work together and nurture people at different stages of their journey. We also delved into the challenges of being a parent and an entrepreneur and the myth of balance. Therefore, I want to share Dayna's insights to help us avoid falling into that trap and maintain a healthy balance between our family and work life.

Favorite Community

What is your favorite community you've ever been a part of and what do you love about it?

It might sound silly for me to say this, but it is the community that I've created online. The reason for that is when my son was really struggling in second grade, he was kicked out of school more days than he was in school. So, I quit my job and decided to homeschool him. When I looked online and talked to any of my friends in real life, no one really understood what I was going through or dealing with.

I created my blog almost 10 years ago with the sole purpose of not feeling alone myself. I was hoping that if I could just get one reader to write in the comments and say, "Hey, I'm dealing with this too," then I would know that I'm not alone. What I found out is that there's not just one other person; there are millions.

Over the last 10 years, the community has grown incredibly large. But the part that I love is when we have that interactive piece. I always tell people, I believe that our memberships are probably the best community you'll ever be a part of. I know you talk to a lot of people, and they probably all say the same thing, but there's just no judgment. It's a completely safe place for parents who are dealing with some of their worst days of their entire life.

We've dealt with child loss, the things happening in the news, a child getting kicked out of school, divorce, and so many really difficult life situations. This community just wraps its arms around you like a warm hug. Even when I, as the quote-unquote parenting expert, am having a really hard day, I can post in that community, and they've got me. So, I think that's why I would still say it's our community that is my favorite.

Starting Something New

Can you give us some perspective on this journey that you've been on and starting one membership and having that grow and then now having three, how did you know when it was time to do something new?

I help parents who are raising even the most challenging kids. I help them create a family that works together, advocates for each other, and empowers each other. For the longest time, I did that through a course called Calm the Chaos.

It was a 12-week course that brought them together in a community. We worked through it together live. And then, as with the end of most courses, everyone says, "What's next?" Now, this was not my first course. I had actually run a course before that called The Worries Workshop, and we had thousands of people go through it and never once had anyone said, "What's next?" Never.

So when I did Calm the Chaos and we got to the end of the 12 weeks and everyone, there were only 25 people, but everyone at the time said, "What's next? We can't leave yet." So instead of just going into the next thing, because I was too scared, I just ran Calm the Chaos again.

I said, "Hey, since you went through the very first, very messy, very ugly version of this course, why don't you come through it with me again while we take more people through it?" And this time we brought on 50 more people. So now we had 75 people go through it the second time.

Again, at the end of this one, they all stopped. They looked around and they said, "But what's next? You can't just leave us hanging." It was so funny because we have a mutual friend, Stu McLaren. I was actually leaving town to go to Kenya with him, and they were like, "What's next? What's next?"

I'm like, "Well, you know, I could do a membership. How many of you guys would be interested?" They were like, "Yes, yes, yes. We're not ready to leave your world." So right there in the airport, I did kind of like a founders' launch for our first membership.

We called it the Next Step membership, which is your “next step”. We always talk about taking things one step at a time. Just find your next step. Find your next step. So we're like, "Okay, it's the next step membership." And out of those 75 people, we had 50 of them join the membership.

That was the beginning of our first membership. It was a back-end membership, which means that they had to go through the course to get to the membership. We ran it like that for years until the pandemic happened. When the pandemic happened, we actually launched our course. It was our largest launch ever.

We had 75 thousand people sign up for the workshop, the free workshop. The day that we opened the workshop was the day that the world shut down March 13th. It just changed everything for us. After that happened, and we kind of got our footing again, in October when it was time to do our program again, it just felt like there, the world needed so much support.

Because now it wasn't just our community that knew what chaos was. The whole world did. And for a long time, that was just a very small community. Those of us whose kids didn't fit in well. Now most parents understood what it meant when their kid was struggling with homework, when their kid was struggling to go to bed, when their kid was struggling with anxiety. It became almost a norm for chaos to be talked about. I knew that more people needed our help.

What killed me is after we would do these big launches, we would have the typical conversion rate. So we'd have 300,000 people go through this workshop and we'd have a 2% conversion rate, something like that.

And I'm like, but there's still 294,000 people who didn't get help. Didn't get support. That's where the second membership was built. I knew that it had to be something that didn't include me. That was super simple, that was easy for them to digest. So we created this front-end membership, and we made it less than a dollar a day.

It was just a go-to plan. So it was scripts and cheat sheets and things that people could just kind of grab and go. I like to think of it kind of like driving through Starbucks and getting your coffee versus sitting down at a sit-down gourmet meal and getting all the different services and having a real conversation.

So this was our grab and go, just grab the resource and do it on your own. And it really served a big need, helping people be able to get this support, but at a lower investment and lower time investment as well. So that's where those two memberships were born out of.

Membership Level Structure

Did you have a community for the lower level membership?

You know, it's really hard for me to not include community. We have a Facebook group and we didn't know how many people were going to come into that group. We have about a thousand members in that membership, and right now it's set to admin approval only. They can post whenever they want..

We post frequently, and members can leave comments within those threads. This approach allows us to consider the scenario of losing our entire team and still being able to manage the membership.

The other membership, your main membership, is that still on the back end of a course?

So funny that you asked that. One of the stressful things about that membership is that it was on the back end of a course. We would have to launch the course and then we would have to three months later, launch the membership to the course people. So we were always launching, and that was exhausting.

So after the pandemic, after we had this front end membership, we were like, well, what happens if we build the front end membership up? We really focused on that one, and then we just let people kind of keep staying in our backend membership because the retention's incredibly high back there.

Because they're getting what they need and they're getting the support and the coaching and all of that. We just kind of kept that one running for a year while we tried to build up. Our huddle membership, which is that front end one, and we went through a couple of iterations, and what we've landed on is that people still need that push for a course.

They need that camaraderie, that community around. We're all going through this at the same time, with an end in mind. There is something that happens, especially for overwhelmed, busy parents who are like, I can do anything for six weeks. But I can't do this forever.

For the longest, we were kind of promoting straight to the front end membership or straight to the second membership. We made it so that you could get the program with the second membership. But this last time, we literally just closed cart Sunday and we decided to go back to offering the course first, but it comes with three months of the membership as a trial. At the end of the three months, the membership will just kick in and just keep going. Changing up the offer, we solved the problem of having to launch the membership at the end. It comes with a one-on-one call. So at the end of that three months, We actually will get on with each of the course participants and talk about their next steps and re-enroll them to make sure that next step is the correct place for them. But we don't have to launch.

That worked really, really well. So it is, it's combined with a front end course, but you really have to do the course and then the membership comes after that.

Are you still delivering the course like in cohort format? So is there a separate Facebook group for the course that you all are going through for 12 weeks?

Currently, we have a separate Facebook group. In the past year, we noticed that when people joined the backend membership and gained access to the course, we had a welcome group for them. We helped them through the foundation module, and then we moved them to the next step membership. However, this process was too complex and some members were getting lost.

With this, we have our Calm The Chaos Group, which is for the course. As a cohort, we'll all move over to the next step membership on that third month. It's gonna be part of that three month onboarding process of let's go through the course for eight weeks, and then that last month, let's get you moved over. Right now it's all live, it's all cohort-based, but the goal is that we are going to be able to make this more evergreen so someone can join the course, straight off the book, straight off an ad or a webinar, and then go through the course for the three months and get moved into the membership.

What we've done is we've said the course is the learning and the membership is your coaching support, accountability community. If at the end of your three months of doing the course you want continued support, accountability, coaching, and community, you just continue in the next step membership. People seem to really be liking that.

Your front end course is the PDF version, where you get the templates and how you navigate through specific situations?

It really focuses on "done for you" plans that we've already put together. The "what to say," "what to do," how to stay calm, and that's the focus of the front-end membership, that it really is about them being the best parent they can be, the parent that they want to be for their kids. It's about them remaining calm, showing up in the way they want to, being present, what they say, what they do. It's less about changing the kid, less about even problem-solving with the kid. That's what our course is for. Our full program, because it's the course plus the membership, really goes hand in hand.

The complete program is focused on creating the family you want to have, rather than just being the parent you want to be. It's working together as an entire ecosystem and as a unit to problem-solve, to understand each other, to become in tune with each other's needs, to empower each other, advocate for each other, and to be deeply connected. That happens through conversation and dialogue and coaching because there are a lot of old habits we have to change.

You asked about the journey that people go on, and we've really identified that just in the last year. That front-end membership can only take you so far. It's great as a triage or a band-aid solution. It's great for "I just need something right now, and I don't have a lot of time. I don't have a lot of energy. Let me just, I want something that still aligns with my values." And then, wait a second, "I am ready for this life change. I am ready for this to become a lifestyle."

I think of it like working out. Instead of doing the YouTube workouts or the membership that just feeds me workouts every week, I'm going to get a personal trainer, I'm going to get a coach, and I'm going to really focus on creating habits that are sustainable for lifetime change.

Always Trying Something New

Talk a little bit about this third membership that's a higher ticket.

I would say that this third membership was the scariest leap for sure. It's actually going on its third year. But it was incredibly scary. I was seeing women especially, but parents feeling tied to their circumstances, and especially with things shutting down with jobs being more stressful.

I was hearing from my teacher friends that were just in situations that they weren't happy with, and I looked at our membership and the women and the parents in our memberships were thriving. They were happier than anywhere else I looked anywhere on the planet. And so, there's something going on here.

At that point we had been doing our two memberships long enough that people were starting to leave, and people always say, if they get results, they won't leave. Our end destination is a family that works together and advocates for each other.I actually have a wall of families now that have reached that end destination.

They've made it. And so sometimes they'll stick around for another year or so just to be like, do I really need this? Of course things come up with families, but because we focus on lifelong change and changing your lifestyle. People were reaching the end, getting their wings and soaring.

But there were a few that kept sticking around and saying, now that my family is in order, now that I have time, now that I have energy, now that I know how to interact with people differently, I don't know who I am. Like if you asked me my favorite color, I couldn't tell you. If you asked me what I like to wear, what I want to do with my extra time, I don't know. I'm lost.

That's where this third program and membership came in. What do you do with your time and energy? And there are a lot of programs out there that will teach you how to be an entrepreneur, how to be a writer, how to be a dancer, how to be, you name it, if you know what you want to be or do, there's a ton of programs out there, but if you don't even know that, how do you rediscover yourself?

That's what this program is all about. It helps specifically mothers rediscover who they are beyond their family so that they can figure out their own identity. Mother is part of that identity, but also how are they giving back to the world? How are they fulfilling themselves and how are they taking this and living a life, what we say, like living a life with no rules, where you are making the rules and it has been the most fun I've had.

It is so cool to watch these women go from, I don't know what my favorite color is to writing a novel. Not knowing what their hobbies are, starting a podcast, not knowing what they're good at, I have one lady who's on her 80th day of live crafting on Instagram and Facebook. I have another lady who does crafts and some people are not doing online jobs. Some, a lot of times what I find is that parents have so much expertise and if you have a kid who's challenging, sometimes you give up your dreams to be the parent you wanna be.

I find that a lot of parents that come into my world, they were doctors, they have PhDs, they were lawyers, they were driven people, and now they're putting all that energy into their kids. We've had people, we have one doctor who was burnt out to the stage of suicidal ideations. and she's back being a doctor again, and she's now, she's doing specifically breastfeeding and helping women who struggle with that.

But this time, she understands that these are non-negotiables. She knows how to avoid burnout and ensure that she has enough time for her family, business, or job. It has been amazing to witness people taking control of their lives and choosing what they want their loves to look like instead of feeling like they have to go to work. It transforms them into a “yes mom” rather than a “no mom”, which is amazing.

What was so scary about launching this new program?

You know, part of it was like, "I've never taught anyone how to do this. How am I supposed to do this?" That was a big one, like, "Who the heck am I to do this?" But there was just that, I call it a "holy bleep" moment. But it's like that moment where you're just like, "Okay, am I gonna do this thing?" What makes me sick to my stomach? "Oh God, I have to do this thing because it's making me sick to my stomach." So it was that feeling of like, "I have to do this thing."

It was way more than I ever charged. It was considered a high-level program at this point.

We’re talking about a program that I’ve built up to $15,000. At first, I had doubts and questioned myself, wondering if I knew how to help my clients reach their goals, if I was the right person for the job, and if anyone would listen to me. I even asked myself how I could charge that much. But as you said, the only way to find out the answer was to put myself out there.

You do it messy and take it one step at a time. I can worry about the "what ifs" all day long, but if I don't actually take the action and see "what if," I'll never know. I'll just keep making up more "what if" scenarios. So I have to take that step forward to either say, "Look, you were right," or "Wow, you were wrong." Look what was possible on the other side of that.

Entrepreneurship and Parenting

Talk to us a little bit about that identity piece and how is it different as an entrepreneur when you also have young children that you are trying to put focus on too?

I started this accidental business when I started the blog. My daughter was six months old. I had a little one at home and I decided to homeschool both my kids, my older kids, and start this blog all at the same time. I've built everything up to now with three kids in tow and one of them being extremely challenging, and I say that in the most loving way possible.

I love him. He's amazing, but he's like five kids wrapped into one. So there were times when my family got my attention more than my business, and there are times that my business got my attention more than my family.

First and foremost, just take a deep breath and like I always like to say, kiss your brain. Remind yourself, “I'm human, right?” Like all this is very normal and part of the human experience, and we set these big expectations for parenting, and we set these big expectations for whatever we go into. Then we feel like we're falling short with both.

I think that one, give yourself grace. That's the first thing that I think all of us need to do because we put so much on ourselves.

Number two is, I think of it as these buckets in a pulley system. Pulley systems are technically just two buckets, but I like to think of it as three buckets. One of the buckets is you as a person, your identity, your likes, your dislikes, what relaxes you, what calms you, what boosts you, and what drains you.

Then there's your family, and that's such an important part of your life. It includes your husband, it includes your extended family, it includes your kids, and it's what you're trying to build for your family. Then there's your dream. And for some of us, there is a time where we've also got work.

Let's be honest, our dream is not always our business, right? It's not always the thing that's bringing in money and bringing in the thing that keeps us going. So some of us have four buckets, but when you think of a pulley system, if I pull down on one bucket, what happens to the other bucket? They go up, right? So if we think of time as finite and we divide our buckets with water across, your family dream and work if needed, when you pull down on the family side, business has to go up and when you pull down on business, family has to go up.

There's this myth that everything should be balanced, and those buckets should be equal at all times. And I think that's where we get so stressed out, feeling like we're not doing a good job at one or the other. But if we can look at all three buckets and say, what is the one thing I want to get done in each of my buckets this week?

For business, if it's a really hefty week, like a launch week, then my business bucket is really full. And I say, what do I want to get done with my family? I want to sit with them at least once this week, each one. I want to sit with one of my kids and just listen to them. Because that way I know they're getting the connection, and that way I know that they know I'm listening to them and I'm here.

I also want my family to know what I'm going through. I want them to see what I'm doing and help them make sense of what I'm doing. Not that I'm just hauled up in my studio all by myself, right? But that is what I'm doing, this is why I'm doing it. This is the purpose. So that when the outcome happens and we get to go on a really cool family trip, it's like, thank you for giving me that time, space, and energy to pull down on the business bucket, because that allowed us to go to Hawaii this week, and I'm not touching my computer this week.

Then the business, I'm like, thank you so much for letting me spend time with my family this week. Me spending time on the family allows me to then come back refreshed, energized, renewed, right? Thinking of it like those buckets really helps me and it helps the women that I help in our program.

Advice to Entrepreneurs

What would you say to the entrepreneur that's listening that knows they are working too much. Once they stop working all the time, they feel like they are not accomplishing anything, not having a box to check.

I felt like that when I just finished the last book, when I turned in the manuscript, it was like, "What, what, what do I do?" I mean, I had time blocking, but I didn't have to do a to-do list and my big three for the day, and I didn't have to prioritize because it was clear.

It was, "Write this chapter, write this chapter." I knew what was next every single day for three months. And so when that came to fruition, it was like, "What do I do now?" So I would say stop. I just stop and be. It sounds so silly and it sounds too simple, but I always think of it like a fly trying to get out of the house and they're just going against the window and you're just like, "Come on, fly."

Sometimes when we’re so close to a problem, we can’t see what’s causing it. It’s like we’re right in front of the window but can’t see it until we step back a little. That’s when we need to pause, take a step back, and reset and reboot. We need to assess what’s currently happening and remind ourselves why we got into the situation in the first place.

We also need to ask ourselves why it is important to get over this? What is the fear holding me back? If you have fear behind the fact that you're working yourself to death. Step back and ask yourself:

What is the fear?
Is the fear that there’s not going to be enough?
Is the fear that you’re not going to be able to support your family?

Get really clear on those things so you can release the fear holding you back.

Then you can invite in something that's going to replace that fear. So it's okay if all I did was take on one client, but it was a high level client versus doing all this social media that's not doing anything for me, right? So you get really clear on what's going to move the needle the most. And you take that one step forward.

I think creating an ideal day, an ideal week is so helpful. I have ADHD myself, so I have to create systems to work.

What I'm learning is all of us need systems to be able to get the things done that we want done. And so time blocking, creating an ideal week, creating chunks. I think the only thing you're missing is you didn't put chunks in there for you. You're waiting until the end of the day. A lot of times you can give yourself that time with five minutes here, five minutes there, and then that will start to expand.

Calm the Chaos

What would you say to someone who is bringing chaos into every environment that they're in?

We often say that chaos is a part of life and you can’t get rid of it. But you can learn to enjoy it. Instead of yelling, screaming, arguing, and constant stress, chaos can turn into loud laughter, playfulness, tickling, running and people going in different directions. There is still a lot happening, but you can still feel good.

The principles I teach in our program are the same ones I live by and use to run our company. There are four principles that are easy to explain.

Think of a Venn diagram, three circles. And it's connection, understanding, and empowerment with you in the center where they all come together. You, you are the linchpin. You hold it all together. So you're that grounded place. You're a safe place for everyone around you, for your ecosystem.

You're where everything lands quietly. That’s super important for you to have that presence, to have that calmness and it is not perfect. I just need everyone to hear that. There is actually research that says we only have to get parenting 70% right. We can all do that!

We can use the remaining 30% to help our children understand the world around them. Additionally, true connection with our kids involves accepting them for who they are, not just playing games or going to the park. For example, my child is creative and busy. My kid is energetic. My kid has a mind of his own. My kid likes to speak up for himself instead of my kid is disrespectful. My kid is rude. My kid is wild. My kid is crazy, right? When we can truly see the kid for who they are and they feel seen and heard and valued for the person they are, not who we want them to be.

Now they're going to be more accepting when we go to guide them, when we go to teach them and help them. And then the understanding piece is really, this is the part that's missing so much because none of us were raised this way, one and two, it's just been in the last few years. And in the last couple of decades where we've really started to learn about human behavior and we've truly really started to learn more about the psychology of things and learn about brain development and why things happen.

That understanding piece is really getting in tune with each family member. Why does this person do this thing? What makes them tick? Why does dad get angry every time we're in the car? Oh, he's really sensitive to noise and it's really loud in the car. Hmm. Okay. That's really helpful to know. Now how can we help that?

The empowerment part means guiding and mentoring. The best mentors ask good questions and help us understand what we’re going through, instead of just telling us what to do. If you want to have a successful business, just do that.

.But the people who truly help me are the ones who ask good questions. When my launch didn’t go well, they would ask what I learned from it. Parenting is no different, we need to guide our kids and help them understand the world around them.

You can apply these four principles to both parenting and business. We use them with our team projects, and everyone we meet. It involves checking our perception and emotions. Are we feeling afraid, anxious, or worried?

We can also ask:

Am I being too controlling?
What should I let go of?
Are there any limiting beliefs holding me back?

Then comes connection. We want to find out:

Who are they?
What do they need?
What is their intention?
What are they wanting out of it?
Why are they doing what they are doing?

Think about who you’re dealing with and try to understand them (like we think about Avatars.) Consider their struggles, their core values, and what motivates them. Instead of just telling them what to do, empower them by teaching and guiding them. You can apply these principles to parenting as well as your team and projects.

You do that with the members in your community. You do that with the people who buy your products. You can use this framework in every aspect of life.

Is that framework, is that kind of what people will get more of in the book?

It's a hundred percent yes. So the book is Calm the Chaos: A Failproof Method for Parenting Event the Most Challenging Kids. There are five stages that are broken down into bite size actionable steps. H2- Stay Connected to Dayna Abraham

Go to calmthechaosbook.com to download the first chapter and preorder the book- Releasing August 1st

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